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The "ubungsammunition"

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Re: The "ubungsammunition"

Postby StG77_CountZero » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:45 pm

This is how bullet data looks in game:

Code: Select all
// Cartridge, 7.92x57, S.m.K. Ub.m.Zerl. - Spitzgeschoss mit Kern Ubungsmunition mit Zerleger
types               Bullet

BasedOn             Mauser7.92x57_S.m.K.
Projectile          LifeSpan 1.0 sec Fuse Timeout Payload Concussion 0.5 g of Amatol

and bullet that is based on:

Code: Select all
// Cartridge, 7.92x57, S.m.K. - Spitzgeschoss mit Kern
types               Bullet

Cartridge           Mass 24.0 g
Projectile          Type ArmorPiercing Mass 11.5 g Bore 8.2 mm FormFactor 0.750 MuzzleVelocity 865 ms LifeSpan 2.0 to 6.0 sec
Tracer              Color Black

Type of bullet is only eiither Ball ArmorPiercing or HighExplosive

Fuse in game can only be Contact or Timeout

Payload is defined by [type of action it does] [mass of it] and [type of filler]

Type of action supported by game:

Filler supported by game (and it has to be right for type of action):

so you can see how limited options are and they can not model it to behave like it was in real, so why waist time modeling it correctly when it was used only for training, just remove it from list, it dosent behave like real should and its best bullet in game if they leve it as it is. best effect to real one i did when i changed Concussion type of payload to Thermal, atleast then it dosent do uber damage but its still not what real one was, game can not simulate behavior of real one of that type.
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Re: The "ubungsammunition"

Postby 19RAF MJDixon » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:00 pm

I like to alternate my gun belt equally between antimatter/nuclear rounds personally. :shock:
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19RAF MJDixon
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Re: The "ubungsammunition"

Postby No.54 Arglmauf (KL-B) » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:02 pm

Hiromachi wrote:Well, its not exactly related to German Ubungsmunition, but as a matter of fact there were small caliber explosive rounds used before and during WW2.

Since I'm primarily focusing on Japanese aviation I also have a decent knowledge in its armament and types of ammunition used by both Army and Navy. Both branches used either 7.7 mm Explosive or Explosive Incendiary rounds, none of them was fuzed but instead were designed to explode or ignite when copper jacket was ruptured on impact with target. According to U.S. Intelligence Bulletin of which I have a copy on my hard drive (if anyone is interested I can upload pictures later) the explosive round was capable of blowing a 3-inch hole in a sheet of aircraft duralumin.
Contents of such round were not that small in fact. Whole projectile had a weight of aprox. 10.69 grms., with "three" sections - first was main compartment with 2.95 grms. of RDX & PETN, inside of which was a smaller inner compartment with 0.20 grms. of RDX&PETN and behind it was a section called "hammer".
Whole mechanism was pretty simple, as when the projectile struck a target the hammer in the rear end would set forward crushing the explosive against the walls of both the inner and main compartments, causing the explosion.

This rounds were used in decent numbers and were reportedly effective against control surfaces and igniting unprotected fuel tanks.

Hey Hiro, sry for the late reply.
Could you upload the material you have, I'm quite interested in reading up on it because everywhere I looked, 8mm was always described as being too small to pack a significant enough explosive charge. Explosive damage on aircraft usually resulted from the aluminum shell compartments being hit by the pressure wave of the explosion and ripping the shell through that and building the pressure that will affect the structural components. The other effect was fragments of the bullet mantle which again, there isn't much from the 8mm to work with. From your description, most of the blast effect would happen on the skin of the plane, namely outside of the internal structure of the plane. So from my naive view of things, I fail to see how it could have meant a significant improvement. The fact that you hear and see little about it I would guess shows that the 8mm explosive approach wasn't as great as it sounded in theory.

All this told: The German ammo loadouts never list an explosive 8mm bullet (B-Patrone being the closest to that effect) so all criticism in this thread still applies to the Übungsmunition.

P.S.: as far as I can tell even the US didn't dabble in HE ammo for their .50 cal until after WW2. Only reference I can find is the Raufoss Mk 211 which is a mixed incendiary explosive and seems to have come about after WW2.
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